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THE KING SHEPHERD

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MY COMMENTS AND THE TRUTH ABOUT

THE KING SHEPHERD!

  In order to know or study the history of the 'King Shepherd' that comes out of the 'King Shepherd Club', one must know and understand the history of the Shiloh Shepherds, so I will go over a bit on them.  I also want to tell you to beware of AKC German Shepherd dogs with registered pedigree papers if they do not look like a German Shepherd dog and call themselves "Old Fashioned" or 'King-Sized'. 

   A German Shepherd is still a German Shepherd and with over 100 years of breedings they can not all of a sudden turn, blue, or long coated, or heavy boned. That is a Lie and I can PROVE IT..

   I have been breeding and cross breeding many AKC breeds together for over 20 years and I have photos to show you what a GSD x Malamute looks like or what an AKITA X GSD looks like  or what a Great Pyr x GSD looks like.  I dont care if you are a breeder of the 'ol fashioned' GSD and you get mad at me for writing this. I know what i am talking about cause i dun the walkin!    What is really so, is that :

1. you are a lier if you are breeding a gsd and it looks nothing like a gsd in bone structure, body build and conformation, or

2. you bought AKC gsd's that were king sized thinking that they were in fact German Shepherd Dogs that were king sized so you are putting your word on someone elses breedings which are lies.  Dont put your word on a dog that you have not bred stricktly by yourself knowing each of the parents for over 15 generations cause i can pick out the breed that was crossed into the lines in a heart beat! 

   All you have to do is send me a pedigree of your AKC GSD with photos and i can tell you exactly which dog is NOT a purebred.  I can show you photos of dogs that look almost identical to your so called GSD for prove that it was mixed.  That is, IF......  the photos are there. Many times a photo will be, oops, missing !   Why?  cause someone is hidding something and it usually is in the direct line up of the dog that looks like it kind of doesnt fit in the pedigree.

Shiloh shepherds --    

    Personally, my opinion is “how can this old lost breed just recently be found?”  I remember seeing this dog when they first came out with the breed and the photos of some of the dogs resembled my dogs in a way.   But looking again, they look like large, long-coated shepherds.   That in itself is not a bad thing.   A long-coated shepherd could be another choice for folks.   Nothing wrong with that.   I know some people that would like a long-coated shepherd.   My problem with this ‘old lost breed’ is that I refuse to have any dealing with anyone who lies and I just can’t see how these folks can claim that this Shiloh Shepherd is a long lost shepherd that everybody overlooked.   

NOTE: I want to say that there were some dogs that were from a back yard breeder or someone who Tina knew and the lady called them Shiloh’s. Now whether the owner thought they were dogs from the past or the gal just made this story up or this gal bought her dogs from someone who told her the Shiloh story, is unknown to me but.. in my thinking and with the stories and facts as I have gathered them, I am inclined to say that the gal who Tina knew believed that her dogs were dogs of the ol’ days with the ol’ lines going through them and this is how Tina came by the name. Next Tina looked up the name Shiloh because of her spiritual awakening and thought it would be good to name her kennels the Shiloh Kennels. This name could have possible come from my sister who was very religious as they did both get to know one another and have a few conversations. Knowing my sister and her ways and thoughts, I know that she was one who loved the ol’ style as so many of us do and did. My sister has since gone on to grab a few Farm Shepherds and to become involved in the restoration of the ol’ farm shepherd. Hmmm, coincidence?

 

    If these folks such as my sister and Tina would have come out and just said, “We like the look of these big hairy shepherds so we are going to preserve them,” that would have been fine.   But, declaring them to be “the” lost shepherds of years gone by, I just can’t figure that.  Same goes for the ol’ Farm Shepherd, but I can believe that more so than the ol’ Shiloh shepherds unless there were some shepherds being bred back in the south that came from our war era as that name was so popular in connection with the southern states.

 

    I saw one of these dogs in person once and the owners swore by them.   “Best dog in the world,” they told me.   I was very glad they loved their dog of course, but the dog didn't look anything like the Shiloh's I see now a days.   

 

    While studying the pedigrees of this long lost breed, I found my sister’s purebred German Shepherd dog’s pedigree.   Boogie Down was a beautiful large boned shepherd with a great personality but he was hardly a long lost breed!

 

    To understand and learn about the King Shepherd after the King Shepherd Club was formed, you must first learn about the Shiloh Shepherd because the King Shepherds belonging to the founders of the KSC were Shiloh’s that were not approved for breeding. What Tina had done to others came back to be done unto her when Shelly Watts took Tina’s  years of breeding and started breeding her own dogs without the approval of the Shiloh Founder herself. Even though Tina had told them to stop using her trade name and stop selling dogs with fake pedigrees, Tina had to take them to court.    

   After the court ordered them to stop using the Shiloh name, they got together and started the King Shepherd Club. King Shepherds were then started with miss-bred, ill-gotten dogs from the discard pile of the Shiloh breed.

   So where did these Kings come from?  They came from Tina’s Konigin GSD’s.  They started with German GSD’s as Tina was into the hard biting serious, strenuous Schutzhund competition Shepherds.

 

    Tina had a Liebestraum and a Wikingerblut female from German Stock and she bred with Odin von Busecker Schloss also of German stock. The pups that came from these breeding’s did not possess the confident temperaments that she needed to win in the Schutzhund competitions so she bred into her line the Piasterndamm dogs.

    With those Piasterndamm pups she lost in size but she says the temperaments for this type of dog were impeccable. With these pups she degreed 14 schutzhund dogs for NASA and participated in the AKC show ring as well. She was probably getting noticed by now don’t you think? Also to be a top winning Schutzhund dog the dog must have DRIVE, hyperness, hardness and a HARD BITE.  They must ATTACK THE RAG WITH furosity!

 

    During these next year’s Tina realizes that the GSD as a breed was deteriorating in size and hip dysplasia showed its ugly head. She blames the deterioration of the breed to popularity and breeders who did not know what they were doing. She begins seeing perfectly sound dogs biting a small child and dogs with low pain tolerance whose temperament is now affected. For these reasons Tina says she begins to research ways of improving this situation.

 

    I wonder if because of her breeding to the great Schutzhund lines with the hard bites, then interbreeding, if her own personal dogs were displaying temperament issues in a variety of situations? I also wonder if she chose dogs with low pain tolerance while picking pups from her own litters, thinking that they ‘bite the rag’ when slapped with it, or other varies tests one would do to choose only pups that would win in the protection class or that had DRIVE.

 

   Anyway, she says that she begins seeing temperament issues in the German Shepherd Dogs so now she begins to research ways of improving this situation. It is my opinion that she uses the word ‘research’ here and not anywhere, nor at any time before this, so I must now think that with that word ‘research’ stuck into her timeline, that this is about the time when Tina begins to outcross as this would give her a very good knowledge on breeding of temperament and touch sensitivities in the canine. Since Tina and I both think very much alike, I must assume that I am right as I usually am when it concerns breeding and canines. So let us further examine her time line as she states it in her web site.

 

    Up until the year 1974 Tina was a rebel who drank, used drugs and hung around a few ‘bad’ folks. Tina says that it was this year that she finally allowed Jesus into her life. One cannot just shed all that one is, so I must say it took some time to stop using foul language and start being a better person. I believe she never did stop using foul language and smoking or drinking and am told I am right on this also.

   Lying, stealing and cheating are habits that take some time to curb and I give Tina the benefit of the doubt (for now).

   So she changes the name of her kennel to the Shiloh Kennels. I am also thinking that she has now taken a longer look at the temperament and breeding’s of her dogs as she ‘researched’ or outcrossed into other breeds and back into the gsd to see what she would get.

    Since she was breeding oh, excuse me, ‘researching’ genetics hands on like I was doing, she sold her home in Rochester and moved to a large farm without neighbors. I am now thinking that (like I) she had to move to continue her work cause she couldn’t have so many dogs in the suburb of Rochester without the laws getting into her business. My time line and hers are pretty much the same and even pretty close to each other in the dates. One gal even accused me of being Tina!

 

    Soon Tina had over a hundred dogs in kennels and was producing dozens of litters per year.  Like I did, Tina chose three lines to work with and inbred them for her research. She was learning Genetics first hand like I had done, but I had started at a much earlier time in my life than she did.

 

    Next she says she then OUTCROSSED to each other and then her foundation was solidified, but she goes on to say that she continued to ‘experiment’ with breeding’s in order to collect valuable data. Next she says that her focus was always on SIZE (she writes this down first), LMX Hips and Sound Temperaments.   

   As you can see, as she writes, she confirms what I knew all along was her focus… size was her first priority, then hips and then temperament while my first priority was TEMPERAMENT first and foremost, then touch sensitivity as this went along with temperament,  then intelligence and non-hyper, non-barking dogs.

   Where Tina was just learning, experimenting and working hands on in the late 1970’s-1980’s I had already done thousands of breeding's and recordings on various animals including Guinee pigs, birds and farm animals under my belt.

   In the late 1980’s Tina’s oversized type GSD’s were being noticed as she put advertisements in the dog fancy magazines. Her dogs were AKC registered at that time as ‘Shiloh Kennels German Shepherd Dogs’.

 

  With her Outcrossing and Inbreeding she states that now she finds another inbred line that seemed compatible with her Ria, Ursa and Kari lines and now she states in the next sentence, that many articles were written about the switch from AKC to the Rare Breed world.  (Hmmm, it’s interesting how she is telling the truth and shading it at the same time as the time line is correct and works in perfectly with her new line of OUTCROSSED stock coming into play as it was at this time, that I saw some dogs that were not PURE gsds on her lineage charts. I the (almost) twin of Tina have been outcrossing for many years now and I can tell when a dog is not ‘pure’ cause that is my profession.

   In the next paragraph she says her intentions were to further protect her lines as if that is the reason she left AKC, or is she leaving something out?  I feel a break in page here, a break in the time line, a pause if you will. So it was, enter my sister Dusty and her oversized male dog who is winning in the show ring, but is stopped from wins because Boogie is now OVERSIZED .

 

   Tina notices the ‘old stock’ my sister has used to get this wonderful boy ‘Boogie”  whose name was taken from the lyrics of the song ‘boogie down’ so you can tell what year this boy was born.

 

 

So what is the King Shepherd?

 

    The King began as the AMERICAN SHEPHERD as did several other (now new rare) breeds did. I call the GSD with AKC papers the American Shepherd as the AKC allowed the GSDC of America to present Standards of the Breed that did not conform to the Germans shepherd dogs way back when the club first formed and the dogs first entered into the American Show rings.

    It was the American German Shepherd OWNERS who held on to these rare oversized dogs and bred them to their own registered or unregistered American Shepherds.

    There was no "ORGANIZATION" who kept records, but there were Breeders. Not only back yard breeders, but mostly German Shepherd Breeding Kennels.

    These American German Shepherd breeders (who also showed their dogs) continually tried to bring these dogs into the ring. So much so that there was a period in time where the show judges had to carry measuring sticks or mark their pants legs to be sure an oversized German Shepherd with AKC papers did not win in the ring. That is how gorgeous these dogs were.

    Tina Barber was one of these GSD breeders and she registered the name of her GSD kennels with AKC as the Shiloh Kennels.  Rumor has it that she took this name "Shiloh" from a gal who was using the name for her kennels, but since that gal did NOT register the name Shiloh’ with AKC, Tina got the use of it.

    Tina was interbreeding and falsifying AKC paperwork and was investigated by AKC when a gal in southern California gave Tina a male dog by the name of Duster's Bogie Down to show on the East Coast. Tina had promised Dusty that she would show Bogie and complete Bog's Championship in return for stud services. After several weeks went by and boogie had not entered any rings, Dusty called Tina and was told that Tina was too busy at the time. Every time Dusty called, Tina would come up with an excuse as to why she was not showing Boog. Then one day a kennel helper called Dusty and told Dusty that Boog had died when boog and one of Tina's males got into a fight. Tina tried to separate the dogs but could not do it without physical confrontation and in kicking boog in the side; she must have busted a kidney as the boog died the next day.

    Dusty called Tina and told her that she knew about the death of her dog Boogie and then Tina confessed and told Dusty that boog had died of parvo. Dusty asked for compensation. Tina never did compensate and when AKC contacted Dusty because Dusty refused to sign any Sire signatures on puppy paperwork, Tina was suddenly not connected with AKC any longer.

    Tina had started up the Shiloh Shepherds in full swing now keeping her own records.

 

    In 1995 a breakaway group lead by Shelly Watts and David Terkhiemer were taken to court by Tina Barber as Shelly was breeding her "Shiloh's" without the approval of the Shiloh Breed Warden. Shelly was ordered to stop using the name Shiloh and that she could not breed dogs that resembled Shiloh’s through a court order filed on August 16th 1996. 

 

http://www.shilohshepherds.com/buyersBeware/1996CourtCase.htm

 

2.  Defendants agree not to begin or maintain a registry, club or organization that claims any affiliation, origin or sponsorship with Shiloh Shepherd™ (as for example, indicating in advertisements, correspondence, sales materials, etc. that a Schaeferhunde or other breed “originates from” Shiloh Shepherd™ dog), except as specifically permitted in paragraph 3 below.

 

(b) The use of the word “Shiloh” may only be used in Defendant’s registration, as proof of lineage, if the name was originally established through AKC registration as having come from Tina Barber’s Shiloh Shepherd Kennels, prior to the formation of the ISSR.

 

(b) Defendants agree that they shall not in the future represent or advertise, directly or indirectly, their dogs as "Shiloh Shepherds™" or any variation of the said names bearing the name Shiloh.

 

5. (a) All Defendants shall immediately and permanently discontinue and refrain from use of the name “Shiloh Shepherd™” and/or “Shiloh” and/or any colorable imitation thereof.

 

 

Below is the first king shepherd clubs acceptable definitions on how an F1 Generation King Shepherd could be produced

 

  1. "breeding a King to a German Shepherd;

 

  1.   breeding a King to a Shiloh Shepherd (another "rare breed" which is highly influenced by the German Shepherd); and

 

  1. Breeding a German Shepherd to a Shiloh Shepherd".

 

  

    Originally the King Shepherd was indeed produced by selective breeding’s of specific bloodlines of German Shepherd dogs that deviated from the AKC Ideal German Shepherd Standard of the Breed.  Once again, these were not the GERMAN shepherds because the GSD has a breed standard and the GSDC of America try’s hard to abide by the standards of the breed.

 

    Later on in the years, the American King Shepherd Club, Inc. (AKSC) was formed and they have since reformed the King Shepherd Standard of the breed and introduced other breeds, to try to strengthen the King Shepherd breed as well as to build upon the characteristics that make the King different from the AKC Standard of the German Shepherd.

 

A King Shepherd looks like a large German Shepherd Dog. Well, not all of them do.  And not any longer!

 

    Once again we have inconsistency because of outcrosses that are being bred into the lines. Outcrosses such as the GRT. PYRENEESE, BELGIANS, SHILOHS, LEONBERGERS, CHOWS and AKITA’S?  Heck who knows for sure?

 

    The folks who call themselves founders (those that started a CLUB) may have a clue but they certainly cannot control any breeder who wishes to out cross and hide the fact, perhaps like they did and/or are still doing? In my professional breeding opinion i have seen other breeds in full force throughout some of the Kings in which i KNOW for a fact is an F-1 or even an F-4.

 

[Founder is one who began or founded something] so FOUNDER is the wrong word. There was and is no FOUNDER of the King Shepherd as it EMERGED and then some folks put a club together.

 

    The King Shepherd was of course a 'Mutt', as all new breeds were once... But what I do not like about the King Shepherd is the falsifying of breed records and not coming clean with the truth and facts as they are. If they want to put a chow in the breed, so what, do it and say so, dont hide it.

    Now, don’t come to me and tell me that this did not happen.  I am too old and have been around far too many of you breeders to know that this did indeed happen.  I also know that these breeders bred more than just the THREE MAIN BREEDS... into this dog and they believed they had to hide the fact else why on earth would they need to hide facts, or cover up stories, or fudge the issues?

 

   What sold, what made money and what made the breeders proud was a very large German Shepherd Dog that was larger than anyone else’s!  Money Talks, bull shit walks...  

 

So what is in the King?

As I have gone through the photos of many of the lineage of Kings, Shiloh's, Whites, GSD, Tundra, Am. Indian, Tamaskan, etc... I have come to the following PROFESSIONAL opinion of what is in the King Shepherd and you can take this to the bank!  The Blood Bank! 

 

IN ACCENTION:

1. GSD  (oversized American Show Shepherds)

2. Shiloh

3. Belgian Shepherd (in the shiloh)

4. Alaskan Malamute

5. Pyrenees’

6. Turvern (also in the shiloh)

7. Leonburger

8. New Foundlander (very small amount)

9. Sarplaninac (Caucasian Ovtcharka) (small amount as the leonburger is the cousin of these dogs)

10. Siberian Husky (in the background of some of the gsd's that went un-noticed within some pedigrees)

11. Akita (small trace amounts that came from gsd's that were used by breeders who did not know it was in the lineage)

12.Wolf (may or may not have been known to be in some of the lines of dogs that were used within the Shiloh lines)

13. Saint Bernard and just recently I have seen some puppies with Chow faces…

 

How can I say this?  (Take your King to the Blood bank and then get back with me.) 

 

FACT:  If you breed with a Shiloh you will have the rest of that stuff in your lines because the Shiloh Shepherd has them in their lines. They (king owners/breeders) may or may not know it but all those breeds are in the Shiloh that I have stated are in the KING. 

 

    When you breed to a dog that is not of your dogs, you NEVER know what is in the background or family tree.  Breeders are UNETHICAL...  and if you truly believe that the paperwork that comes with your puppy or with a stud dog is correct, then you live on fantasy Island...

 

   Another thing that makes me upset is that some King Shepherds may have AKC papers.  How is this?  Because AKC is only a breed registry club. AKC is not a dog pedigree police nor can it prove any wrong doing.  If the sire and dam have registration papers and are throwing pink puppies, all the puppies get registration papers cause the mom and dad have them.

 

    Below, i am going to give you the standards as last i saw them. Why i say that is because who the heck knows what the so called King Shepherd clubs (s) are going to do next?

 

    Here is a story that may explain something to you:  Once upon a time there were some dogs from Alaska. Whenever anyone saw one of these dogs they would all say, "isnt that one of those ALASKAN DOGS?   Well, guess what?  Now there is a so called breed by the name of the ALASKAN DOG. 

 

It’s a shame that the King Shepherd didn’t just stay the King Sized German Shepherd.   :>(


 


History/Origin:

The King Shepherd was developed with the vision of a large sized or "king-sized" German Shepherd.

 

The German Shepherd is the main ingredient in the King Shepherd.  In fact one of the first rare breed organizations that recognized the breed included among its acceptable definitions on how an F1 Generation King Shepherd could be produced was by "breeding a King to a German Shepherd; breeding a King to a Shiloh Shepherd (another "rare breed" which is highly influenced by the German Shepherd); and breeding a German Shepherd to a Shiloh Shepherd".

 

Originally the King Shepherd was indeed produced by selective breedings of specific bloodlines of German Shepherd dogs that deviated from the AKC Ideal German Shepherd Standard of the Breed.  Later on in the years, the American King Shepherd Club, Inc. (AKSC) has reformed the King Shepherd Standard of the breed and introduced other breeds, to try to strengthen the King Shepherd breed as well as to build upon the characteristics that make the King different from the AKC Standard of the German Shepherd.

 

The AKSC registers the King Shepherd breed and issues individual and unique registration names and numbers for those dogs and their ancestors who are used in the King Shepherd breeding program as well as for puppies that are produced.  The King is accepted by several rare breed organizations which allows the breed to be shown in breed competitions as well as obedience competitions. 

 

Some people believe that the King is "just a King-sized German Shepherd".  While the AKSC will not argue with these individuals and based on the original vision and genetics of the King, to a German Shepherd Purist, there is an element of truth.  However, the AKSC believes that the King is indeed unique because it consistently deviates from the Ideal German Shepherd that is described in the AKC German Shepherd Standard of the Breed.

 

A King Shepherd looks like a large German Shepherd Dog. The breed was originally developed on the East Coast using American bred German Shepherds, crossed to flock guardians, which were then crossed with European bred German Shepherd dogs. The intent was to develop a superior family companion and protector that was capable of performing a wide variety of working duties ranging from police service, to guide dogs, to search and rescue dogs. The original breeders also wanted to produce a dog which was free of the many health and temperament problems, which has been affecting German Shepherd Dogs. 

 

Registry (s): 

 

Links: The Rarities Inc, and North American Kennel Club

The American Rare Breed Association

 

Standards of the Breed:
 
General Description: The King Shepherd resembles the German Shepherd in appearance, with a muscluar body, longer than it is tall.
 
Coats:  1. The coarse-haired coat consists of short, straight hair.  2. the Long-haired coat is long and rather wavy.    Both have double coats and the undercoat is a lighter color.
 
Ears: The ears stand erect and are kind of rounded at the tips coming off the top of the skull.
 
Eyes: Medium in size and deep set into the head.
 
Chest: deep and broad.
 
Tail: feathered, carried downward and slightly curled.
 
Feet: the paws are round and not too long. pads are hard and the nails short, dark and strong.  Dewclaws are removed.
 
Colors: White, blue, or liver colored dogs are disqualifying colors. All Kings shall have dark black noses.  Acceptable colors are:  Sable (brownish tan with brown or black markings, grayish silver with black markings) Black and tan, gold, cream silver and tan all with black saddles,  Colors must be rich and faded colors are not acceptable.
 
Character: self confident, intelligent and loyal. Easy to train, docile, friendly towards strangers, children and other animals but never the less makes an excellent watch dog.
 
size: 25 - 29 inches
 
weight: 90 - 150 lbs
 
Health: hip dysplasia, stomach problems, allergies, pano and all other German Shepherd Dog traits run through these dogs.
 
Life expectancy: 11 yrs.

 

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If you have a link that we can place on this page please e-mail me.

 

SCHWARZ KENNELS * 4175 WINNETKA RD

* WHITE CITY, OREGON* USA * 97503

(541) 830-0571

(541)538-9296 cell phone

schwarzkennels@aol.com

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